This topic contains 32 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by John 8 years, 2 months ago.
-
Posts
-
I have just received a load of well-rotten horse manure, but already have mature green manure growing. What do I do–cut and compost the green manure and then add the horse manure on top? Or cut, fork in the green manure and then add the horse manure on top?
Or just leave the green manure until about 4 weeks before planting something there, then cut and fork it in to rot and do not put on the horse manure?
Reading the various web pages on green manure does not give clear advice on this.
Am interested that Pete Budd did not fork in his green manure–rather composted it. Is this because ‘forking in’ is digging and therefore disturbs the soil structure?
Lots of possibilities Eleanor but the answer partly depends on which green manure you are growing eg if mustard, a two inch covering of manure will kill it, but clover, rye grass or vetch would need three to four inches as they are persistent perennials.
Advice depends on so many things eg what are you planning to grow? If sowing carrots or planting lettuce in April, I would spread the manure now to give the green matter time to die and for slugs to diminish. If planting leeks and brussels sprouts in June, you could spread the manure in March. And so forth…!
If your soil is light with few slugs, March manuring is good again. But if clay I would do it now to have bare ground over winter and few slugs by spring.
Pete’s system sounds interesting and good value, 25% of ground is not too much to lose if you have a big plot. I suspect that yields are lower than from using manure but Pete may have a comment on that.
Thank you for the reply, Charles. The green manure is phacelia and is now about a foot high. Haven’t quite decided yet what to plant in this particular bed. It had potatoes last year, and then we planted the green manure a little while after they were harvested. Can’t quite remember when –perhaps about the end of August, early September.
Interesting what you say about spreading the manure depending when one is going sew things. Does one vary the time of the manure mulch even without green manure already being there? I have some bare ground as well (have just been getting out perennial weeds today on the beds where the beans and sweet corn were)and was thinking of putting a thick layer of manure over them all. But should I decide my planting for next year now (about to do so in any case) and then vary the time I put down the horse manure depending on that?
You mentioned carrots–do you spread manure for root vegetables–as the conventional advice is not to do so?
And finally–am I right that you would not dig in the green manure before spreading the horse manure? I assume you just cut it? Compost the cuttings or leave them lying?
Oh yes–and my allotment soil on these beds is a lovely medium loam with not too many slugs.
Thanks for considering these many questions.
My suggestions of varied timings for spreading manure were specifically to do with the green manure underneath. Sorry it sounds more complicated like that – usually I just spread compost and manure before year end if possible, so that it can weather into finer tilth and feed soil life.
You can simply cut the phacelia and put manure on top.
I like to feed all my beds so yes, even where carrots and parsnips are to be sown. It is not recommended because there is an assumption that it will be dug in. Whereas on the surface, soil structure simply improves in an even way and root vegetables then go down into the undisturbed soil.
Once you get the hang of ideas like that, everything becomes simpler.
Thank you so much for your advice on the timing of manure–green and otherwise. Slowly getting the hang of this!
Now–another question. We have autumn sewn onions and garlic already poking their shoots up–well up, as it has been so mild. I had spread a bit of our own compost on the soil before planting (there were potatoes in this bit before), but didn’t have a lot. Now I have a lot of horse manure. Most is well rotted, but there are some clumps among it that seem fresher. Can I put the well-rotted manure down as a mulch or would it encourage too many slugs on fairly young shoots? I am concerned that the ground is not ‘rich’ enough. I could also wait until the spring to spread the manure. Which would be best?
I also have 2 year old leaf mold that I just discovered. (Had forgotten I’d made it.) Any advice on where best to use leaf mold? Or do I just use it as manure?
Luckily, onion and garlic shoots are rarely troubled by slugs, and you can spread manure between them, after breaking up the larger lumps with a fork. Now is a good time.
Re leaves, at two years of age I would spread it as if it were compost.
I am concerned that the mustard I planted in October 2011 wont be ready for planting if I put the manure now.
Do I need cardboard and the manure, this area of my plot is clear of bindweed?
What depth of manure do I need for the mustard to die?
Should I chop up the green manure before I cover it with horse manure. and finally when is the earliest I could plant anything in this area.I would have expected the recent frost to kill mustard, which normally perishes in -6C or below, its stems softening and plants turning yellow. If so, just rake off the debris and spread an inch of well rotted compost. Or you could sow into the soil if compost is scarce.
If plants are still alive, hoe them off and proceed as above. Mustard is the least invasive green manure, along with phacelia, so you can be sowing at normal times if clearing soil now.
Hi Charles
Wow this no dig gardening is quite difficult to adapt to. I’d have never thought digging damages the structure because everyone digs their soil so I was under the impression it was the correct thing to do. It was hard not digging my allotment today but I had your youtube videos in mind.
The green manure is frosted and is turning yellow. So when you say “rake off debris” do you mean just the taller stems or the whole plant roots as well? I thought green manure was supposed to add humus to the soil?
Do I compost it separately or can it stay on the soil if I chop it up with the hoe?
I can cover it with an inch of horse manure I don’t have enough compost, it that ok?Thank you
Sahira
Sorry to confuse you. In your original question you were concerend that your soil, after mustard, ‘won’t be ready for planting’, so I assumed you were planning some early sowings and plantings in March. Hence that advice, as removing rotting debris reduces slug numbers and makes early sowings of small seeds more likely to succeed, especially carrots and salads and spinach. This is true whether dig or no dig.
I do not have time in my answers to cover every eventuality, nor can questioners list all their plans and the background to their every question. If you are planning to grow potatoes, onions, leeks, courgettes etc, I would leave the debris there, which you now say is yellow so it has indeed been killed by frost. I did not know it was dead so had to give you advice in case it was not! Just put compost on top. Easier than digging I would say.
When I remove plants after cropping, I sometimes leave roots in, or sometimes pull them out and then walk on the soil to firm it down again. No dig is not a set of rules, just a principle. I need a spade to extract parsnips and a trowel for bindweed. Run your plot how you like, maybe use a few different methods here and there, then observe any differences in growth.
I have an allotment and am going no dig. some over wintering green manures have an intensive root system. Does anyone know how I should ”dig in” or use this organic material
thanks Keith GadsbyKeith it depends wheat and when you want to plant, and what the green manure is. Details!
Many you can pull out to compost in your heap, some need mulching with say black polythene for 6 or more weeks.Hi All,
I have always struggled with the Green Manure theory but now that I’m following Charles’s no-dig strategy I fail to see the need for it at all.
If you sow a Green Manure and then remove it to the compost bin are you not just doing the very thing your trying not to do, i.e. remove nutrients from the soil, and therefore you must top dress with Compost anyway.
If you dig it in are you not going against the basic no-dig principle of trying not to disturb the soil structure. Also if you dig it in won’t nitrogen be used up in decomposing it?
Why not just top dress with compost in the first place?Don.
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.