Maintaining larger areas with no dig approach

[james_highlands]

Hi Charles

I am currently in discussion with my growing partner over the approach to cultivating our new plot of  land and we are at a temporary impasse! We have a plot of around five acres which has good soil and its never been compacted by machinery. I am very much for using the no dig approach and he is leaning more towards cultivating the land with machinery. Most of the advice we are getting from other growers is cultivate with machinery, as they advise that the area is too big to maintain by hand and we won t have anywhere near enough material to use the mulching/compost method. Of course I don t have too many people from the no dig camp who have grown on any kind of larger scale to turn to for a balancing argument, or advice on how to manage an area this size. I read that at one point you were working seven acres so I am sure it is possible. Any help you could volunteer in presenting a good case would be most appreciated, as right now the cultivation camp have it, which makes me feel quite depressed!

Thank you very much

James

[charles]

Yes I gardened on 7 acres of no dig beds in 1987-89 and it worked, with four of us full time in the season from March to October. I used straw mulches for paths and no more than 30T per annum of compost, less than I do now as I was cropping less intensively. Labour was cheaper then. Also it was brashy soil and I started by rotovating in dry August/September weather, to have clean soil for bed-making in autumn, using a spade.

However because of the cost of labout, I think it is cheaper to run things less ecologically i.e regular use of machinery, which can so quickly clean soil every spring, though at a cost to soil life for sure. Also there are then more weeds but in a dry season a tractor hoe can cope with most of them. Its the wet years that pose problems for machinery and I have seen both sides with both kinds of weather.

I would consider no dig intensive on say half an acre to one acre, for crops of high value and close spacing such as salads, spinach and pea shoots, also no dig in polytunnels is brilliant, and its good for early plantings too, then the rest with machines – I can’t believe I am saying that but it is economics, and you have to pay the bills.

[james_highlands]

Thats really helpful thank you. We have to make compromises if we re going to survive and everybody seems happy with it now. We have 1760 metres of polytunnel space and roughly the same amount outside, so an acre of no dig we ve given over  to high value crops following your advice. Of course there are a few issues as we re starting out, one being a large meadow full of creeping buttercup and couch grass. Again, following your advice we should dump six inches of compacted mulch on top of this and hope it weakens it! We re also considering planting through bio degradable plastic on top of this mulch for the first year as an extra insurance. Is this right?

Two more questions: we ve made some calculations about how much compost/manure we ll need to cover that amount of space and its frightening! We obviously won t be trying to do it all at once, but it would be good to hear how much you think we ll need based on your experience and whether our calculations are in the right ball park. We have a source of manure/compost so thats not a massive problem, although there are legal limits for the year we have to consider. The other question is about bed direction. Our outside beds are on a slope and currently we re discussing whether to run them vertically of hoizontally. The soil has very good drainage so there is a worry the beds will dry out in summer if run vertically . However, running them horizontally could cause waterlogging in the winter. Do you have any experience of this that could help us?

This whole venture is pretty scary, as all of us come from from a background of cultivatiing the land, so we re going into no-dig with some trepidation and little experience. However, we feel it makes a lot of sense and hopefully if we do it right, it will be worth it.

Thanks again and hopefully one of us will be seeing you on your February course!

 

 

[charles]

I need to clarify the difference between no dig for gardening and for growing. I think that misunderstandings arise because I am part gardener, part grower and advise both, so I apologise for any confusion.

On an acre I would not and do not recommend spreading six inches of compost. As you say it would be a huge amaount and there is also question of pathways which are less composted: on a garden scale, cardboard works well for paths, and for growing you could use strips of mypex, but its expensive. I avoid plastic as much as possible with the following exception.

For starting no dig on a large area, especially with lots of couch grass, I would use black polythene to cover and kill weeds, for six months or possibly more if you have lots of couch grass.
I would not aim to grow on the whole area in year 1. However if you need to for economic reasons, spread say two inches compost and grow wide-spaced veg through holes in the plastic, such as cucurbits and brassicas. Weed the holes too.

The first year aim is to clear perennial weeds, totally. Income is lower but money is saved thereafter.

Polytunnels are an eception again. High value cropping makes the six inch nethod worthwhile and I put four inches in pathways too, with cardboard underneath.

See No Dig Vegetables banner for the different options. I suggest two or three inches compost over your weeds, then polythene until May at least. On a smaller area, use the six-inch compost method for early cropping.

I would orient beds up and down. Mainly because its easier to spread compost without it falling downhill onto the path below, and likewise to water/hoe etc in summer.

I look forward to meeting up in February.

[zuf]

Hello. I really like this method of design, it’s called keyline.

I work in humid climate with sloping land and i’ve never had problems with water logging when raising beds a little bit, only scraping path soil onto a garden bed area.

Principles behind keyline is to slow, spread and sink the water as much as possible, avoiding erosion and water logging and at the same time maximizing water retention.

Here is the detailed process on how to go for it on a market scale – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mk5IG6E_nK4

I would love your inputs on this one Charles!

[zuf]

I made couple of gardens and i’m now striving to not make the beds as high as presented in the video. That means not scraping to much soil from path area.

Covering the whole are with compost is of course the best thing you can do for  the finish!

[charles]

Thanks for this Zuf. For me it is too theoretical, I wish to see those beds in full production after a few months at least, is there a sequel on YouTube? Keyline is well known, what would be interesting would be to see it working in a market garden, for someone earning a living. Also there are other aspects to using contour lines, such as access to paths, and whether the climate justifies it.

If the soil in that video had couch grass and other vigorous perennial weeds, as at Homeacres last year and in James highlands’ case above, Jesse’s method as shown here would not work, the beds would revert to grass and weeds. Also if the soil is already growing healthy grass, why is there any need to disturb it with a broadfork? At least he mentioned the need to cut down the nearby trees, that was a fine root he extracted!

[zuf]

Hmmm, thanks for this answer. I was also questioning why he distrubs the soil so much if there is such great soil and plant growth.

Also i  have problem with my current garden where the below sides of garden bed are steep and it’s a challenge to maintain them, so i can clearly see that in a video as a problem.

My main question is connected to my climate and water. We usually get two months of hot weather with ocasional summer stroms with quite heavy rainfall. Autmn and winter time are wet. In both cases keyline pattern would be pefrect for water retention and i have doubts of runing beds up and down on a slope. What is your experience with water with up and down pattern. I can cleary understand the pros of maintaing such beds, but i’m “afraid” of water erosion and lack of retention in summer loosing precious summer rainfall.

Also the idea of taking soil from path onto garden bed. With hard to kill grasses you can pose even more problems as you said? I know you suggest this idea in your book on some point, but do you really like to do that?

[zuf]

I can’t find the sequal.

[charles]

I have tried beds across and the water simply runs through them in a heavy storm, causing more erosion (of compost from beds) than from paths which were going up and down. So for my slightly-raised beds, I like them to be up and down a slope, and think that Keyline is good for farming where there are not beds.

Soil from path to bed is good when clean of weeds, it does give a more raised bed than from compost only, which tends to settle.

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