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Tagged: New Beds.
This topic contains 20 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by charles 7 years, 10 months ago.
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11th May 2016 at 6:56 pm #34367
Charles,
I thought you may be interested to see your lessons put into practice!
I have been project managing my new build house and the last job is to prepare the new garden. With that in mind I attended a course day with you 21 March 2015.
I finally got around to preparing my veg growing area this year and completed it ready for use in early May this year.
The ground had been been turned over with diggers etc and I decided to make two beds 4 feet wide and 55 feet long at the end of the plot, and cover with a 6″ layer of well composted horse manure. I purchased 15 cubic metres (about 8 tons I believe) of horse manure which was a great buy @£120 which was delivered by grab lorry. About half way through the offload I was beginning to question my sanity! The mound was simply HUGE! I made up a 6″ deep “mould” and It took me several days to barrow to the growing area, firming it as I went along. I used it all on the 2 x 55′ beds and a fruit growing area 12′ x 18′.
Photos attached of the before and after.Mark
11th May 2016 at 7:02 pm #34372I am getting mixed results with my growing. I have kept everything covered with fleece up until now. Lettuce, Spinach and Petit Posie look fairly good but Peas have almost died, and Onions and Shallots are struggling and have turned yellow.
Any ideas?
11th May 2016 at 7:51 pm #34375Hi Plantmark,
I don’t see any supports in place for your Peas?
The second thing is they really shouldn’t need fleece at this time of year as they will take all but the hardest of frosts.
Onions don’t need fleece ever (except Spring Onions). Yellowing leaves usually indicate a nutrient deficiency but in this case I would suggest too high temoerature.
I personally haven’t seen this situation (Onions under fleece) before so I can’t be absolutely certain of my diagnosis. Wait to see what Charles suggests.Don.
11th May 2016 at 8:07 pm #34376What a gigantic effort you have put in there Plantmark! Could the yellowing be residues of horrible weedkillers in the hay/ straw bedding from the horses?
I wished to add an interesting observation from this season; I multi-sowed Santero onion in modules and had good germination. Upon planting, all but one odd module of plants went under fleece for the whole of April – there just wasn’t quite enough fleece for that last clump! The result is the interesting bit; the fleeced onion plants are approximately four times as large as the uncovered clump. Same soil, same amendments – possibly the influence of warmth provided by the fleece?
11th May 2016 at 8:36 pm #34377Hey plantmark,
The project loooooooks really really good. Am impressed! 🙂 Was thinking about the same thing as Stringfellow regarding your peas. Were they growing in well rotted horse manure too?
11th May 2016 at 8:37 pm #34378Yes fleece has helped onions this year.
And they should be greening up now, even without fleece.
Mark your efforts are exemplary yet I am afraid there is some aminopyralid herbicide in that manure, for your peas to be almost dead and the onions not much better.
Its a rotten situation because everybody knows that this particular herbicide has lethal persistence, and any farmer buying it has to sign a statement that he/she won’t sell any treated produce off the farm.
Yet there are more and more stories coming out like this.
Veg families that are affected worst are legumes (e.g. your peas) and solanums, to a lesser extent I think are alliums and lettuce family (endive, asters). However your lettuce look ok, even good, so I can’t be totally sure. Potatoes would suffer, if they emerge with curling leaves that would confirm it, have you planted any?11th May 2016 at 10:01 pm #34379Thank you for all of your replies. The peas were just for shoots and yes they are in the well rotted horse manure. I only covered with fleece to protect from pigeons.
Charles that doesnt sound good. If there is herbicide in the manure that would signal a swift end to my efforts. There is no way I will undertake to remove 8 tons. Would the herbicide be present in hay or grass fed to horses?
Would the herbicide affect plants, only I now have another 8 tons to spread across my flower beds. If I could prove there is herbicide present I could get the supplier to remove it.
If there is herbicide present presumably it wont be advisable to eat anything grown in it?
Do you know where I could get a sample tested? Maybe Ministry of Agriculture?
I have a few spuds which have just emerged which I have now covered. I didnt notice that the leaves were curling.
I have also lost 5 out of 10 Red Cabbage which just withered away.
A better photo of lettuce attached.
Mark12th May 2016 at 4:29 am #34381Well those lettuce look pretty fine, except for top right. Check this post I put up last June 2015 where there is a photo demonstrating effects of aminopyralid.
You can see the lettuce looking stunted.
It takes around one growing season for soill organisms to break the aminopyralid down.
But I do not know the answers to most of your questions: you could contact Defra with a photo, and Dow Chemicals who make the herbicide.
However Mark from here its hard to be sure, perhaps there is another cause.
re flowers, I would google aminopyralid.
But as I say, its not a certainty, at least not until you check e.g. runner bean, potato, tomato.12th May 2016 at 6:23 am #34383Thanks Charles.
There is a very informative page on the RHS website. They suggest trialing Broad Beans, some grown in compost and some in the suspect manure. I do have Broad Beans growing and they are showing signs of curling so its not looking too promising.
I read that the herbicide only breaks down if it is very well mixed with soil.12th May 2016 at 6:09 pm #34389This is a helpful pic and hooray, those beans look healthy, no sign of ap imo. `They would not have grown so tall or be so full of healthy flowers & the tops look ok.
12th May 2016 at 6:22 pm #34392That is certainly good news for Plantmark. It would have been a crying shame if all his efforts had been set back by that herbicide. He has done a fantastic job ob his plot – obviously learnt quiet a bit from your course.
But it brings us back to his original question as to why the Peas are wilting and the Onions have yellowish leaves?
Could it be that they were just getting too hot under the fleece?Don.
12th May 2016 at 6:26 pm #34393Thanks Charles. There is some curling on the growth of one plant. On the downside my carrot seedlings are beginning to yellow. Also Dill, Coriander and Parsley are looking very poor, they have been under fleece.
I have direct sown more peas and onions and also a few spuds into the area where the onions are and will monitor.
I feel fairly convinced that something is in the manure which should not be there.
The supplier I purchased from collects from several livery stables so if there is anything present it will most likely be in pockets throughout the delivery.
I contacted Dow and they have asked for photos so I am waiting to hear back.23rd May 2016 at 9:06 am #34567I have received feedback from Dow Chemicals and they spotted a Mayweed in one photograph. They say that this would not grow if AP were present. They also say that the damage to Peas would not have been caused by AP.
From what I have read it all looks very much like AP.
I planted a Tomato plant in 100% Manure and one leaf is beginning to curl after 10 days.
I have attached current photos and would appreciate your take on it Charles. What else could it be?
23rd May 2016 at 9:10 am #34572I also have Raspberries with damage.
Yes……..a proper disaster!!
23rd May 2016 at 9:27 am #34578Oh dear, the spinach looks terribly affected and that is ap damage.
It must vary across your beds because the manure was from different sources.
For the tomato it needs a pic of the growing point. That curl on a leaf margin is nothing severe and could be temperature variations etc. -
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