Ready to go!

[plantmarkParticipant]

Yes thats what I thought. I sent Dow the image of the Spinach. This was their response.

“Thank you for sending the further images. From the photos, the curling of the leaves does not look typical of the symptoms caused by aminopyralid, and the mayweed does indeed look to be unaffected, which would suggest that aminopyralid is not present”

All they seem interested in is me doing a Bioassay and grow Broad Beans in Manure and Bought Compost side by side in pots, quite frankly I can see no point looking at my crops.

Yes indeed it will vary but I dont have one success except for Petit Posie which would not be affected by AP

[plantmarkParticipant]

Charles, I enjoyed your talk last week which was useful to renew my determination, bearing in mind recent difficulties.

Dow Chemicals asked me to do a Bioassay with Broad Beans. So I sowed Broad Beans in a Sylva compost alongside the manure in 7 inch pots. The seeds germinated as expected with the Sylva Compost producing shoots with nice flat leaves and the manure sown seeds showing curling. In fact they showed the same result as the initial images I sent to them when they said that they did not consider that AP was present.

Now that I have undertaken their experiment and sent them images of the result they say that the damage may have been caused by a hormone herbicide of some sort.

Meanwhile, I found an alternative source of nice black manure with an appearance much better than the first batch and I was encouraged to know that the guy supplies it to the local authority for the wonderful flower bed displays on the roundabouts in Letchworth. So…..I steamed in and had a delivery of about 3 or 4 tons because I was keen to plant out my veg and flowers which were bursting out of pots in the greenhouse.

I replaced about 20% of the manure which I initially laid down which took me 6 hours to complete. Growth on Runner Beans, French Beans and Barlotti Beans is very poor, with spindly twisted growth and yellowing leaves and Broad Beans planted in the manure are growing with cupped leaves and black tips, so its pretty clear that I have another duff batch.

I have found another source, where they are methodically processing the manure to bag for sale in Garden Centres. The product looks nice and I am currently testing with Broad Beans, Tomatoes and Lettuce. I just bought 8 bags this time!

I have also been to our local Green Waste processing plant where they are producing a nice looking product. I am thinking that this may be my best option as it will be good to work with, unlike the manure which needs an awful lot of chopping to break it up, but I am concerned about using it having seen some of your trials in pots which show very poor growth from green waste when compared to other compost and manure.

I know that you use it, but how do your results compare with Green Waste compared to farm manures?

[charlesModerator]

Hello Mark and it was good to see you.
Such a pity that you keep running into these problems and it makes me wonder how much of this awful aminopyralid has been sprayed on fields for horse hay. Its a terrible poison and Dow should be ashamed and compensating everyone, or prosecuting the farmers who sold the sprayed hay, after signing a contract to say they would not.
I have just checked my green waste compost and its fine. However its also low in nutrients from being too fresh for growing.
Although it looks black, the heap temperature is 55C and wood is breaking down, taking nitrogen where it can grab it.
So… all depends how decomposed your purchase is.
Its good in the end but if used in 4-6in depths, there is a risk of veg losing out while it finishes decomposing.
Try adding some New Horizon organic chicken manure pellets to it, look at the difference here where I added some to the middle row:

“French bean plants in green waste compost, chicken manure added to middle row”

[plantmarkParticipant]

Thank you Charles. Dow have been very reticent to admit that my problem was due to herbicide. Only when I did the experiment their way did they ALMOST admit that herbicide was the probable cause, and you recognised it immediately.

I believe that Steph used green waste to start her allotment off ? Have you seen the performance of that improve over time as the constituents rot down?

Well the beans certainly look good. At least the plants are not mal formed and something can be done to add nutrients easily. By the time I have removed the bad stuff I have laid down, I will have spent something like 60 hours behind a wheelbarrow!

I went along to the Green Waste plant this morning. Whatever they sell is going to be fairly fresh but I would be happy to sprinkle chicken pellets rather than spend days removing what I have. I will wait for the results on the third batch of manure and failing that I have no alternative but to go down the green waste route for the bulk of what I need. I have a limited supply from 2 horses in a field at the back of me so that may suffice for future top ups.

I have attached photos for your interest of beans grown in the second batch of manure

[plantmarkParticipant]

This is lettuce grown in the first batch of manure on the left and Melcourt Sylva Compost on the right after 5 weeks.

[charlesModerator]

Oh dear that second batch looks awful, so sorry for you.
Green waste is a general term for many different composts and you may be lucky (you deserve it) to source an older one. Make sure it is sieved to 15mm max. even 10mm if offered.
Yes Steph mulched with green waste, also an inch of cow manure.
I made a bed of 6in green waste in Feb 13 and onions were poor, but then a July planting of beetroot were superb.

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