Onward from a Permaculture start

Community Community No dig gardening Preparing the ground Onward from a Permaculture start

This topic contains 10 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  wyrdwitch 11 years, 8 months ago.

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  • #21426

    Poolfield
    Member

    In January this year I read about permaculture and got very excited, I bought a load of straw and started the mulching on my veg beds. I did layers of homemade compost, then cardboard or thick newspapers and topped off with straw. This year has been a growing disaster!!!!! I think mostly to do with a huge number of slugs, things I planted out from modules just dissappeared.

    The straw has not composted down very much, do I need to scrape this off and compost it separately or can I just do the compost mulch you reccommend on top of it?

    I have also had huge problems with the grass paths and buttercups growing all around the edge of the beds, should I have laid the mulch over the board edging and onto the paths?

    I have to admit to being close to giving up on growing after such hard work in January to MArch and then almost total failure of crops.

    #23402

    wyrdwitch
    Member

    I think this has been a terrible year for vegetable growing, whatever method you use – the weather has been on the side of the slugs and snails, and we have also lost the best part of our crops to them this year. I know we gardeners are always at the mercy of the weather, but I’ve been growing veg for over twenty years and have never had such disappointing results before.
    Two crops that have always been pretty reliable for us whatever the weather are onions and beans, and these have been more or less a total failure this year. Two beds of onions raised from seed had their leaves eaten away so many times they couldn’t come back, and the few onions that survived are so small they’re not really worth harvesting. The same goes for the beans – we grow lots of runners and french beans, and again most crops didn’t survive the slug attacks, in spite of repeated sowings. We are being pathetically pleased at the moment to harvest a few runner beans from the three or four vines that survived against the odds.
    As for the squashes, only half a dozen plants have survived from the 30+ that we planted out as strong young plants, and they were all well hardened off before planting out with protective rings around them. I always put so much care into growing the squash plants that I feel almost maternal about them, and was devastated to lose so many!
    I used to get very excited about permaculture mulched gardens too, but have never had any luck with them, even in a good year I think they are just a breeding ground for slugs and snails. Maybe they were designed for a climate that had different challenges than our own. I think the best defence against slug attack is to keep the ground clear and use barrier methods such as cut-off plastic bottles, but in very wet conditions even this doesn’t work.
    There may have been one very small moment this year when I wondered whether it was worth all that effort … but it was soon replaced with a determination to do better next year! And at least our fruit trees are cropping well B-)

    #23401

    charles
    Moderator

     I love your commitment! and echo all you say. Mulching with layers of straw is best in hot, dry climates and does indeed breed endless slugs in most of Britain, much of the time. Also where there are already many weeds, there is a reservoir of existing slugs so the first year is always harder from that point of view, until one achieves bare soil.

    Poolfield, I hope you have no weeds at least on your beds? And your surface layers of mulch are slowly rotting and being taken in by worms? I think I would remove all unrotted mulch to a compost heap, and any slugs you find. Your problem is paths…..

    Wyrdwitch, your couch sounds well established and won’t succumb to half a year’s mulching, I suspect it needs a whole season. Even if you mulch the paths, it will keep popping into your beds. (And vice versa for Poolfield, you needed to mulch paths too). I would be tempted to cover the whole plot with membrane, expensive though it is, plant through it next season, remove any weeds that pop through planting holes, maintain slug traps or whatever….. Also if you had any spare compost to spread before laying a membrane, growth will be stronger.

    Then in the following year you could remove the membrane and grow in clean soil with many less slugs.

    #23399

    wyrdwitch
    Member

    Charles, I like the idea of covering the whole plot and planting through the membrane – if the membrane would last for a year it would be worth doing just to get the ground clear again, and give me back the illusion that I’m in control …

    #23400

    charles
    Moderator

     I was talking with a gardener of 45 years (age 70 or so) who bought some weed membrane 20+ years ago, cut it to fit different parts of his allotment, burnt holes for planting through and just moves it around as he rotates his crops, using the same holes every year, and he spreads compost after rolling it up to move it somewhere else. I think he rotovated though, hence he needed to suppress new weeds every year!
    I have never used it myself but there clearly are membranes which last well, it is probably worth paying a little more.

    #23398

    Poolfield
    Member

    I have ordered a copy of your book to help motivate me to draw a line under this season and start again. I’m guessing autumn is a good time to get going.

    #23396

    bogbean
    Participant

    I have just bought a copy of your book, Charles,and I am definitely drawing a line under this season which has been so difficult for growing vegetables. Having used the dig dig dig method (!)for decades, I am really excited at the prospect of no-digging! I feel I’ve got loads to learn re growing veg using this method, but it is an exciting and enthusing prospect.

    #23397

    charles
    Moderator

     Nice that you are both looking forward optimistically!
    And you can start spreading organic matter and mulch at any time of year. Now is ideal if ground is bare after harvests or failed crops. If there are few enough weeds to pull by hand, you need use only compost and no light excluding mulch on top of it. Be clear about the difference between

    (a) the first season of clearing weedy ground with light excluding mulch, and compost/manure/whatever underneath that to enrich soil as weeds are dying, and

    (b) every season after that when your soil is and stays clear of weeds, so the compost mulch is to feed the soil rather than smother weeds. But it does happen to reduce weed growth because they seem to want to grow less in rich, undug soil!

    A special case is if you make a one-off bed with, say, six inches compost on top of weeds & grass, you don’t need the light excluding mulch on top because six inches is enough to smother all attempted regrowth by the weeds below (except bindweed, keep pulling it). After making a bed like that you can sow and plant straightaway, no need to wait for weeds to die below.

    #23395

    bogbean
    Participant

    I have a well rotted compost heap which has been “closed up” for 9 months. It is made of garden waste, pure horse manure collected from the field, and unfortunately I did put some wood chips from the shredder on there (I won’t do that again). So, apart from the wood chips, it looks to me like a good compost to spread on my garden.Up to now I have dug in this type of compost but I’ll just spread it on top this year. However, my question is – do you ever add any extra nutrition to the compost? eg. add organic chicken manure pellets (is there such a thing?) or any organic type of fertiliser?

    #23394

    charles
    Moderator

     Your compost sounds really good! Putting it on top means that any wooden ingredients cause less nutrient robbery, since they are barely in contact with soil, and a small amount of small wooden bits in compost is good for aeration and the final quality.
    I add the manure from ten laying hens which is more to "activate" the heap than to add nutrients. You should be having a similar effect from horse manure. I do not use any extra sources of nutrients, finding the compost is more than sufficient.

    #23393

    Poolfield
    Member

    Well your book arrived yesterday and when not actually gardening I’ve been reading, it is a very interesting read and well laid out.

    It has got me back into the “zone” after so much dissapointment this year. I decided to put two of my veg beds to bed for the winter, they have been mulched with compost and one has cardboard on the other has black membrane on and I have decided to mulch out the badly kept grass paths through the winter, I can see I am going to need lots of cardboard.

    The straw mulch I had used last year was harbouring a huge quantity of slugs so I raked most of it off and will compost it, it hadn’t broken down much and fed into the soil as I was led to believe it would be all the Permaculture artcles I had read.

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