Preparing a bed laden with tree roots

[AsifParticipant]

Hello Charles

I’m in the process of creating a new no-dig bed in our back garden. The previous owners kept much of the garden covered with weed fabric so the good news is that there are no weeds. However, there are quite a few tree roots present on the soil surface (images attached). Some are thin, others almost an inch thick. The trees they supposedly emanate from are at least 15m or so tall and located about 1-2m away from the bed. They are sited on our neighbours property.

The question is: do I need to remove the tree roots before I plant into the bed and is this likely to damage the trees? Removing the roots won’t be easy as there are so many and some are likely to be difficult to pull out? Could this be a valid case for double digging to completely clear the soil of roots?

Once the tree root issue is resolved, I’m hoping all I need to do is spread an inch or so of compost and begin planting.

Many thanks in advance for your guidance.

Asif

[charlesModerator]

Oh bother that makes an otherwise easy job, more difficult.
Yes those roots need cutting off at source e.g. you could make a thin, narrow trench along the side nearest to your neighbour. (no need to remove the actual roots or to dig the soil apart from making that trench)
The trees will be set back a bit but its your garden!
Also they will reroot into your beds so in two years I would do it again.
Best of luck with it Asif.

[AsifParticipant]

Thank you Charles for the quick reply and for an ingenious solution.

[AsifParticipant]

Hello again Charles

A follow up question re the the trench you mentioned. How deep should it be and can I refill it after digging?

Asif

[charlesModerator]

I suggest 18in so quite deep; two spades depth.
Yes absolutely, simply refill after cutting the roots. You might need an axe for some roots, depending on tree type and age.

[AsifParticipant]

Thanks again Charles. Really appreciate the help.

[AsifParticipant]

Hi Charles

Sorry for resurrecting an old topic.

Still not quite finished digging the trench to block invading tree roots. You mentioned that I’ll need to repeat this every few years as the roots will just grow back. Do you think a root barrier like this might be helpful in preventing a re-dig? They don’t come cheap but would be an investment if they work especially against a neighbouring Willow with its 2-3″ roots.

Asif

[charlesModerator]

Hello Asif, sorry the tree is a willow, they are greedy.
That is a big investment and I am unsure if it will repay you. But its your best chance of keeping the roots out.
It would be cheaper to rent an allotment if there is a plot nearby, but then you would not have the food in your garden.
Best of luck with it.

[AsifParticipant]

Thanks for the assessment Charles. It’s very much appreciated.

[JDParticipant]

Hi Charles, I was going to ask you something very similar but then spotted Asif’s post.
I have just taken on a small allotment near where I work of about 23 ft x 34 ft. It has several spit-depth trenches and consequent ridges taken out of it at odd angles which makes walking on it precarious. I gather the previous people just did this and were never seen again! I also gather that several previous people have ‘given up’ on it. In it’s current state the allotment has been strimmed of a flourishing community of weeds and top growth raked off and burnt by the council because other people were complaining about all the seeds blowing over theirs. Unfortunately this was too little too late as the entire patch seems to have a covering about a quarter inch thick of weed seeds of which I suspect the majority is couch grass. It is also only six feet away from the trunk of a mature but growing oak tree of 8 foot girth. Some half to three quarters of the allotment is under the canopy of the oak tree. So, where do you suggest I go from here? The site is an ‘overflow’ area for a cemetery so it is unlikely that the council would agree to the tree’s canopy being thinned. If I tried to take out a trench 18 inches deep so close to the trunk to try to curtail the roots would it damage the tree? Also at this point is it likely that the roots are just going downwards to surface elsewhere on the plot and a trench would have no effect? Also as I’m going to have to level it anyway would you suggest that I just tried to dig the plot first to remove surface tree roots and as much of the mat of couch grass roots as I can before trying the no dig treatment? Also do you think that I’m going to have to put down a membrane and have deep beds in order to grow anything or do you think that a covering of compost on the existing surface would achieve results? This is in one of the driest areas of the country in Cambridgeshire so deep beds would be even drier. I know when you started at Homeacres you cut down your trees first because they had an effect on crops but this is not an option. Lastly, I should think that any time now the tree is going to dump half a ton of acorns and leaves on the plot. Is this more problematical for a no-dig system with growing crops than a conventional one?
Sorry this is so long I’m just unsure how best to proceed (unless I accept that’s it’s just going to need 5 times as much water (none on site) and twice as much compost as normal.

[ivyroseParticipant]

Got a lot of great information here.Thanks for sharing.

[charlesModerator]

JD you have a difficult allotment! Perhaps the shortest straw…
Yes to level.
No to try and dig out the tree roots, you would be there for a long time and break a spade.
No to try and remove the couch roots, you would be there for even longer. Couch is mulchable, I know from experience. Ok some claim that their couch is more vigorous than everyone else’s but its still a perishable weed.
All those weed seeds will be harmless when buried under mulch.
If you can manage 6in over the whole site, even what will be paths, plus thick cardboard underneath, that is a start. You may need polythene over too, after the fall of leaves and acorns which are good fertility.
Its a big investment, returns may be average.
But no dig/mulch after levelling looks way the best option.

[JDParticipant]

Hi Charles,
Thanks very much for replying. I appreciate it.
I wasn’t too worried about the couch as I know it will go eventually, mainly the tree roots in competition with everything I try to grow which will be on going. Were you recommending trenching and cutting the roots in this situation or not? Sorry, I’m a bit unclear.
My original intention was to water the ground (it’s very dry), spread some compost for the worms etc to take down and then cover the whole lot in woven permeable landscaping fabric till the spring before the majority of the leaves came down. These would then be easier to remove from the fabric to a separate leaf mould enclosure which would hopefully not encourage the slugs to stay on the plot. Are you suggesting that I wait for the leaf-fall, then mulch afterwards with cardboard/compost or get the compost on asap (not sure where I’m going to get that quantity from) then let the leaves/sticks come as they will.
On the subject of compost you seem to use cow manure. Is that because you have a ready supply of it or do you favour cow manure over horse manure? Just wondering. There is a riding stable nearby where I may be able to get some fresh manure for future use though I think they bed on wood chips unfortunately.
Thanks again for your help Charles.

[JDParticipant]

Do you think raspberries would crop well under the oak tree canopy? I’m told it gets afternoon sun. If so, would I plant into the soil and then mulch afterwards, or plant into the mulch? I’ve never grown raspberries before.

Thanks, Charles, for replying to ‘the toxic bouquet’ post. Just trying to get the message spread a bit further. What also concerns me is just how many of the garden centre plants marked ‘perfect for pollinators’ have themselves been treated with pest/fung/biocides to make the plant more appealing to purchase. Seems to be routine to spray many plants with dwarfing agents too!

[charlesModerator]

I would plant into the soil if the mulch is thin, otherwise into the mulch. Raspberries are supposed to tolerate shade, sounds a good plan.
That is more worrying news, so much tampering is happening, unseen.

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