RED GRENOBLE LETTUCE GERMINATION PROBLEMS

[davithjoParticipant]

Hi Charles
I grew Red Grenoble lettuce very successfully last year but this year have had major problems with germination. I sow 1 seed (which I get from Seeds Of Italy)in each cell then top very lightly with fine vermiculite. I have even bought a fresh packet in February but again the latest batch only 1 or 2 germinated. How do you sow your seed and also have you had problems/

Many Thanks

[charlesModerator]

Yes its a great variety, we were just picking loads of leaves off Grenoble Red sown seven months ago, and we have picked each plant since November. However that non-germination is disappointing. I have had similar problems and now keep my own seed (works best in a polytunnel from overwintered & early-sown lettuce), also Steph just had the same thing with Franchi’s Grenoble Red seed, bought this year, see image below.

You could send a message to Paolo Arrigo grow@italianingredients.com, he runs Seeds of Italy. Seed companies need this kind of feedback because I find their germination figures sometimes do not match what happens in a garden.

This photo shows Grenoble Red from Franchi on left, sown at same time as lettuce from Organic Gardening Catalogue in the other two strips.

[Don FoleyParticipant]

Hi Davitjo/Charles,

I have experienced similar problems with various varieties of Lettuce in the past.
Seed suppliers give divergent sowing instructions for the same cvr which doesn’t help!
I now sow mine indoors and don’t cover at all, just making sure the seed has good contact with the compost (General Purpose) and that the compost is moist at all times.
I find in my case that Growlights are essential as light levels indoors for me are not ideal and I now get germinating levels of 80/90%, which effectively means I end up with more seedlings then I require – I sow 2 seeds per module in Plug Trays.

Don.

[dan hazelrowanParticipant]

I have had very dubious / erratic germination with ALL my lettuce seed this year, from various seed suppliers, in various composts….

So i am sowing every two weeks to make sure I have enough!

Also I am planning to save all varieties of lettuce I grow this year,

Seems very odd, perhaps other cosmic factors at play? a non lettuce year? ?

[dan hazelrowanParticipant]

oh yes, you can get mottistone seed on ebay uk now, I have just ordered some, if it works I will save seed!

My mottistone from seeds of distinction has been 100% non germination this year and dubious last year – so obviously the same batch.

[StringfellowParticipant]

Hey Dan, what a downer regarding those lettuce germination issues. I must have had a lucky draw from seeds of distinction because my mottistone have come up well. If you get stuck, I would happily send you a batch of this seed which is sound, no worries.

[dan hazelrowanParticipant]

Hi Tris, thanks thats very kind, I’ll take you up on that if you don’t mind – i’ll try and save seed from it and then share again.

Also that has reminded me I never sent you that pulsar seed! Many apologies, I blame being an overworked veg grower! 🙂

i’ll email you!

[LeifParticipant]

I used to grow only chillis and one year had a failure of the same variety from two sppliers. The first failed totally, bought another packet, but germination was poor. Charles states in one of his books that many companies buy seed from the same source. I can believe that. There are a few companies such as Real Seeds who grow their own, or have a small number of people who grow for them. I find their chilli seed germinates quickly, consistent with fresh seed from fully ripe pods. The results I have had are as per home saved seed. Germination from one well known small company has been iffy for me, as well as from the big names. So I guess even small companies can be just re-packaging operations.

[j.whitlockParticipant]

I have had the same problems with Red Grenoble germination, 4 other varieties germinated at the same time.
I was so pleased to be trying this variety that Charles raves about so much. Has anyone succeeded with this years seed from Franchii, or found an answer.

[charlesModerator]

Lettuce seed does like an aerated medium, try germinating in a small tray of pure vermiculite, the seed on top with a glass over the top.
Meanwhile I am forwarding your comments to Paolo Arrigo, Seeds of Italy.

[davithjoParticipant]

Hi Charles,
You will probably remember back in early April this year I wrote to you re my saga of poor germination of Red Grenoble lettuce seeds, one of your favoured varieties.
I received great guidance from yourself and Don Foley, who suggested I may want to try his method of sowing the seeds on the surface of the compost without covering them.
Well what happened next was I was growing some of this variety of lettuce which was sown in August 2014 in a long raised bed covered with sheets of glass following the No Dig method.
As you said you saved your own seeds I decided to leave 3 plants to go to seed. These plants were left and in early September I put the branches with the seeds into a large plastic bag
in order to remove the seeds at home. During this exercise some seeds fell onto the compost in the raised bed. To cut this long story short and true to Don’s words, low and behold the seeds
germinated by themselves on the compost in the raised bed. The seedlings were left to fend for themselves and then when the seedlings were big enough I transplanted them in to 3, 12 cell trays and grew them
on until they were big enough to transplant into my small greenhouse and also another raised bed on the 4th October. The plants in both areas have taken off.
This proves the point of both you and Don that provided you have viable seeds and good compost everything flows like a dream.
Hope it will be a lesson for other people to try saving your own lettuce seed and to try sowing the seeds on the surface of good compost.
Thanks for your great site and all the advice flowing from it.
Regards
David

[ElizaDParticipant]

I bought a packet of rouge Grenoble from Seeds of Italy and have sowed on three separate occasions. The first two showings resulted in none germinating at all although other lettuce seed germinated well. On the third occasion I tipped a good proportion of the contents of the seed packet on fine compost and got about ten seeds to germinate. Again, other lettuce seed germinated well as did my spinach and chervil.

Because of such poor results from this packet of seed I plan to save my own seed when this lettuce flowers next year (if I can keep a plant or two alive over the winter that is). I also have four or five lettuces flowering now that I want to collect seed from. Because I’ve never saved my own lettuce seed before, I’d just like to ask at what point is it best to collect it?

Many thanks,
Eliza

[charlesModerator]

I have written to Paolo about this, its not good. They must be carrying old stock.
Best collect v soon when you see lots of white tufts, uproot whole plant and rub out seeds, takes time, best of luck.

[charlesModerator]

Paolo is taking it up with Franchi in Italy and I shall post his reply when it comes.
If anyone else has problems of non-germinating seed, I suggest emailing the seed company. They need to know.

[ElizaDParticipant]

Thanks very much Charles for your reply and for relaying my complaint. I bought the Rouge Grenoble seeds from Seeds of Italy and some seeds of Freckles from Amazon at about the same time. The Freckles seeds came in a little plastic bag so wasn’t expecting much from them however they have been great!

I will attempt to harvest my own seeds next week as we are forecast dry weather – it drizzled rain yesterday here and rain forecast again for today.

Have a good open day on Sunday. Haven’t been able to make any open days this year but got to your June one last year and saw some very interesting gardens in addition to your own.

I saw a note that you appear on Gardener’s World soon and there is some footage of you with Geoff Hamilton. I would like to see this but hopefully avoid a repeat of the tedium of the hour long programme I sat through last night so a heads up on the date would be much appreciated!

Here’s to an Indian Summer!

Eliza

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