Starting from Scratch

[EcoboyMember]

Hi Charles.

I’ve been an enthusiastic garden composter for years, and am retiring from the world of work next year. I have a two-thirds of an acre site in the west of Ireland, which has been lying fallow for years and I find your “no-dig” proposition appealing. I want to grow veggies once I have moved to live beside the field.

It all looks a bit daunting, looking out at it, so my question is this: where do I start? If I read you correctly, I should clear away the pernicious weeds by hand, then just pile on 4 to 6 inches of compost/manure, perhaps onto a floor of cardboard (?), and sow & plant into that.

If you have a chapter of a book to guide me, please point me in that direction. My ‘traditional’ approach would have been to start with a manageable bed of potatoes (double digging and manuring) to clean the ground and proceed from there, expanding as I go. My back hurts already!!

Love the website. those photos set the bar very high.

Ecoboy

[charlesModerator]

 Welcome Ecoboy and to the many new Irish visitors.

I wish I could give a precise formula but differences between weeds and soil make it difficult. Chapter 5 in my Course book is devoted to this and I could write a whole book on the subject. Also Chapter 6 on weeds is important because the precise course of mulching depends what is there. What are your pernicious weeds?

For example if there is just a small amount of couch grass and other traditional suspects, I would not do any initial clearing before mulching.

If soil is poor I would aim for an initial four inch mulch of compost/manure. That would kill almost all weeds except some perennials, which could be tidied up with a trowel as they poke through after two or three months. You could plant into this mulch, through spring and summer. But if there are many perennials with big old roots, I would consider a sheet of black polythene on top of the compost.

If using black plastic, just an inch or two of black stuff under it will improve soil which is already in a state of reasonable fertility (eg the grass is abundant!).

So it depends on many things, also how much manure or compost you can find or afford. I would do it in stages, say a quarter of your plot at a time. Then you can assess which precise method is best for your land. 

At the end of a year you should have really clean soil with almost no perennials and with little desire to grow annual weeds. There is also a post in these forums about growing potatoes in a clearing year, through holes in black polythene. 

[Pete BuddParticipant]

Hi Ecoboy

My approach is a variation on the Charles` no dig one but the thought of 2/3 acre in the west of Ireland makes me very envious, with mild winters and plenty of rainfall, half the job is done! I don`t import any manure or compost, instead relying on green manure and composting as much organic waste off my plot as possible. I think “cleaning” with potatoes is a bit of a misnomer and wouldn`t advise it. So where do you start? assuming the site is level, I would cover a substantial area with plastic or old tarpaulins, to begin the process of killing the weeds, with a view to cultivation as time permits. The remaining area I would rake off as much of the dead material and top growth as possible and start to fill compost bins. Let this area green up and then spray it with glyphosphate on a calm mild day. When the sprayed growth has browned and shrivelled, lay out beds, (mine are 2.4 Mtrs wide), with paths in between. The idea being that standing on the beds is minimised by working from the paths. Cultivation can then begin, by shimming, (hoeing), the surface prior to sowing/planting. I like to use a push/pull hoe, which works in both directions and can provide a good tilth upto 50mm deep. Don`t underestimate the amount of physical work involved; I can`t help thinking that 2/3 acre might neccessitate some powered machinery.

Cheers

Pete:-)

[CharlieMember]

I would avoid spraying chemicals, there is simply no need here – why poison the ground unnecessarily?

[EcoboyMember]

Thank you, all three, for your input. In my head, I’m gradually seeing what’s required. One thing is Pete’s suggestion of gradually scraping away the existing growth and building up a couple of compost bins. I also reckon, with the size of the plot, I’ll have to buy in a few loads of manure and compost to get me going. One thing I will have to do is use a pick to lever out the larger stones, as Donegal can be quite rocky and there are quite a lot of stones (football size +/-) on the site. Then there’s a good bit of bramble, which I reckon, need to be cut down and the roots dug out. But the weeds are the usual suspects, with dock being particularly well represented. Finally, the assumption of level ground is definitely not it … slopes from both ends (east and west) to a low middle, which is wet. water feature anyone?

I will keep on reading and getting a plan in place. Thanks again for your help.
Ecoboy

p.s. charles,I’m reading a book “The Garden Organic book of Compost” I bought last week. After that, I’ll be on to you about your course book! rj

[Pete BuddParticipant]

I take on board your comment Charlie but glyphoshate does not leave any poison in the soil. I would not use it as a matter of course but as a one off application it can be very useful.

Pete

[peatParticipant]

Hi Pete
you should check this out
http://environmentalcommons.org/glyphosate.pdf

It’s not as safe as people believe
Pete

[Rocket ScienceMember]

Our local council spray the pavements with Round Up. The people doing the spraying can only be described as wearing radiation suits with masks and gloves. I have never used it and never will!

[Pete BuddParticipant]

Thanks for that peat; It`s made me think a bit more about the subject but as I pointed out, its not something I would use as a matter of course. Regarding the fact sheet that your link led me to, it looked a tad one sided and it was not obvious to me what/who were responsible for it and what their qualifications were. Life is a hazardous occupation, risks are taken everyday and I would find it difficult to quantify the risks posed by the use of glyphosphate or where to place it in the hierarchy of substances hazardous to the health of the planet.

Cheers

Pete

[charlesModerator]

 I did not realise you have brambles and I would dig these out with a sharp spade, just the root crowns and then have a bonfire.  That should make a huge difference to clearing. Docks I have also used a sharp spade for to remove the top 4-6" and I find they do not re-grow, though others have.
Then a light excluding mulch. I would not use the Roundup and as others have said here, there is more and more evidence emerging of its pernicious effects.
Good luck with the rocks!
 

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