Yellowing leaves of peas, lettuce, spinach

[SuazMember]

Hello,

I’m in the my first year of running an allotment on very thin, chalky soil in the South East. I’ve created frameless raised beds covered with about 10 cm of green waste compost into which I have planted module-raised plants of peas (Sugar Snap and Onward varietes), lettuce and spinach at the spacings suggested by Charles in his Vegetable Course book. All the plants looked quite healthy as seedlings raised in modules filled with West Riding seed/multi-purpose compost and seemed to do rather well when first set out but gradually lost their strong green pigment and turned yellowish all over once planted out. The earliest plantings, the peas, also appear to have run out of steam as they are no longer growing as vigorously. Fearing the green waste compost to be low in nutrients I bought in a trailer load of farmyard cow and poultry manure with the intention of using it to grow potatoes, beans, squashes, courgettes and cucumbers and also to supplement the green waste compost by mulching salads, broad beans, peas etc. Unfortunately, despite being told that the manure was “a year old” and ready to use, it was immediately obvious by the texture and smell that the product was in fact a mixture of some partly rotted but mostly fresh dung, including a large amount of uncomposted straw. Naturally, I’m feeling very disappointed and frustrated as this huge quantity of (not particularly cheap) manure was a nightmare to carry in to the allotment (access is very difficult) and is now taking up a good part of my plot whilst being mostly unsuitable for use as a growing medium this season. Courgettes and squashes are about the only plants it could be used for, or so I was advised by a more experienced hand whose vegetable growing skills I value. What would be the best thing for me to do given the circumstances and is there any way to revive the fading green of my salads, spinach and peas?

[charlesModerator]

 Sorry to hear your woes and you have been unlucky with the manure, which is best stacked until more rotted, do grow squash and courgette on it after making as tidy a heap as possible.
As for green waste compost, when I first used it the quality was higher than now when there is often more wood included, which takes nutrients until it is decomposed. It is good when used with some well rotted manure and I have been doing that here at Homeacres.
Steph had a similar problem last year when she inherited some beds of pure green waste compost, and she spread some comfrey pellets and seaweed meal to help enrich it. She didn’t even rake it in but it was raining all the time! This year I would rake it in lightly to the top couple of inches, except where you have already planted, water in if possible.

Another idea is to water with nettle tea if you have stinging nettles, which are high in nitrogen, soaking them in water is the quickest way (two weeks) to extract goodness, but smelly. Otherwise they can be squashed into a pot with a hole in the bottom and the black liquid can ooze out of the bottom into a bucket – that way there is no smell, takes two months.

Whatever happens it will come good in the end but you are in for a tricky spring and good luck with it.

[SuazMember]

Thanks Charles for a very helpful reply as always. I shall go collecting nettles and comfrey leaves and start making the tea today. There are strong growing nettle plants around already but comfrey leaves are still a bit small — perhaps it is too early to start cutting them? I will also check my local garden centre to see if they have any seaweed meal and comfrey pellets — they are not very strong on organic stuff but I’d rather not be hit by extra packing and postage charges if I can avoid it. I’ll also start collecting some seaweed from the beach as I live near the coast but in my experience it does take a long time to break down. I gathered a bag of mixed seaweed in early January, washed it to get rid of some of the salt, and put half of it on my compost bin (after chopping it up roughly) and half of it on the ground. It dried out hard and took a long, long time to break down on the soil surface. I then decided to rake some into the soil where I’m planning to make my carrot bed and it has just started going crumbly and looking unrecognisable.

[GinamcconMember]

Hi there Suaz, I know how you feel. I was at the same point about a month ago with some of my polytunnel crops having used a lot of green waste compost. As with yours, onions, lettuce and spinach planted out healthy soon started looking yellow and poorly. I, like you had only partially rotted manure. Luckly I had some old nettle and comfrey tea from the end of last year so watered with that. I also ordered some bags of well rotted manure (5 years old) from mr muck, which although expensive, compared to a trailer load is well rotted and comes in bags so easily stacked/moved. I mulched the plants with an inch of manure and they are now growing and producing. I’m wondering if a manure tea made with lumps of the partially rotted stuff may be worth a try if diluted correctly, just to get the plants some nutrients fast, although I’d research it as I’ve no idea on strength etc. I hope you manage to sort something out.

[SuazMember]

Hi Ginamccon, interesting that you should mention Mr Muck. They were one of 3 suppliers that I’d considered ordering from and although a much costlier option at least if the manure is well rotted you can use it straightaway. I started off some nettle and comfrey teas yesterday and will look into making some manure tea as well. Thanks for your suggestion.

[GinamcconMember]

Just thought of another liquid feed that you don’t have to wait to release its goodness…urine. Again I’d research to see how much water to add to it.

[compostpopeParticipant]

Would it not also be an idea to spray a seaweed solution directly on the plants? You should be able to get this in a garden centre (I can, here in Switzerland) or it can be ordered online at OrganicCatalogue.com

This could well be the quickest way to give them a general nutrient feed as it does not involve having to wait at least a couple of weeks before the “tea” is brewed or for fertliser applied to the soil to be broken down and then absorbed by the roots.

I also wonder if an internet search might provide information as to which nutrients are particularly low. I think I’m right in saying that certain deficiencies can give characteristic growth patterns / leaf colouration etc., knowing this you can apply an organic fertiliser that is known to be rich in that nutrient. As a rule, when using garden compost or well rotted manure you don’t have to bother with this level of research as all the nutrients are there already, but in this case it might be of interest, and if they don’t respond to all previous suggestions (highly unlikely) – maybe even useful!

One final suggestion (though I’ve never done it myself and I suggest it only if you are really keen to know exactly what the problem is) is to get a soil analysis done on the compost. These can be done through garden centres here in Switzerland, but I don’t know if that’s the case in the UK.

Best of luck, I’m interested to hear how you get on…

Compostpope

[SuazMember]

Hi compostpope, yes I did wonder whether seaweed extract would not be faster acting. Having checked the Garden Organic catalogue, this is how they differentiate between the two products:

“The beneficial effects of SM3 Seaweed Extract are most noticable when the plant is under stress, for example from frost, drought, pests and disease. Seaweed Meal serves as a soil improver by building up the humus structure and water holding capacity. It can be applied at any time of the year, and it is particularly beneficial if applied 3 months prior to planting, so ordering in the autumn is a good idea.”

So yes, it would appear that seaweed extract is more of a quick, short-term fix while seaweed meal is more of a long-term soil conditioner that is admittedly more useful when applied in advance of planting.

I’m also wondering about a new product on offer: Worm Wee. Has anyone tried this as a general fertiliser?

I did consider a soil analysis when I first took on my plot but decided it was probably more worthwhile to invest the money in improving general soil fertility. According to the RHS, chalky soils are often poor in nutrients as both manganese and iron can be “locked up” in the soil and therefore become unavailable to plants. Not sure there’s much I can do about this other than enrich the soil with large quantities of organic matter.

[charlesModerator]

 Suaz I think that the warmer weather will help nutrients become available. I would save your money on products, and you feel you have done the right thing already to invest in organic matter rather than a soil test. Often there can be hiccups as you are experiencing, but trusting natural processes is usually the cheapest and simplest way in the end.

[compostpopeParticipant]

Hi Suaz,

It’s interesting to read what you say about chalky soils, I’ve never had experience of one but you’re doing exactly what I would do by focusing on increasing fertility with organic matter. What do other organic gardeners do in your area? (Although didn’t you think the problem was the municipal compost rather than the soil?)

Seaweed extract and calcified seaweed are the only fertilisers I’ve used other than garden compost and I don’t think I’ve used more than 150ml of the extract in the last 5 years. I think a monthly spray of everything actively growing is generally recommended but I’ve never had time to doing anything other than watering it on a few crops maybe once or twice a year if that, and I can’t say I’ve noticed an effect. This corresponds to your quote from the Garden Organic catalogue about the effects being more noticeable on plants under stress. I won’t feel under so much pressure to use it now! I originally bought it because God Flowerdew recommends it for masking the smell of peas from mice when sowing direct.

It would be interesting to run an experiment (I have a biology degree so I’m always keen on these!) to observe the effects of seaweed extract on your poor seedlings compared to how they get on without.

Never heard of worm wee – didn’t realise that they do. Is it the stuff that flows out of the bottom of wormeries? I won’t be rushing out to buy a bottle.

Compostpope

[SuazMember]

Hi compostpope,

Yes it was the green waste compost I was mainly concerned about but that’s because the soil itself is more of a known quantity: what little of it there is (only a couple centimeters in places) is very stony and surprisingly dry-looking. It almost looks like grey dust when it hasn’t rained for a while. Having said that, it’s mainly the well-dug, previously cultivated parts that look parched. I planted some broad beans on newly cleared ground and it surprised me to see how much more moisture retentive the soil in that part of the plot was whereas when I tried to water some planting holes in one of the previously cultivated beds I almost had the impression of pouring water into a bottomless well.

I believe most of the other allotment holders on my site are growing organically. A lot of people buy manure from the same source as I got, others visit local stables and bag up the free stuff to take away, and at least one person I spoke to mixes spent hops available free from the local brewery with garden compost to reduce soil alkalinity as spent hops apparently are slightly more acidic than other types of compost.

By the way, I really couldn’t believe the difference on seedling growth made by warmth, as Charles said. I visited the plot yesterday afternoon and after a wonderfully warm, sunny day the lettuce had grown glossy new leaves, the beetroot stems had thickened and spinach leaves had grown bigger and more plentiful, so perhaps there is hope yet! The only thing that hadn’t improved was my late-sown broad beans which appeared to have been savaged by birds. Their leaves had all been pecked at, presumably by birds rather than slugs as there were virtually no holes in either the spinach or the lettuce. I covered them up with fleece to protect them. I hope they don’t get too hot under cover and that they manage to bounce back soon.

[compostpopeParticipant]

That’s really great news about the seedlings – no need to bother with buying the seaweed solution now!

The beans might be suffering from bird damage – I’ve seen sparrows making a tasty salad of my peas but they’ve never seem to show any interest in my beans. Could they be being nibbled by bean weevils (aka pea weevils)? They are very common at this time of year and tend to make semi-circular holes along the edges of the leaves – I’m sure if you search on the Pest Forum you will some useful info. I get some damage every year to a greater or lesser extent from these and my favorite method of dealing with them is to put the kettle on and ignore them. Works a treat every time!

Don’t know if the fleece would help protect against the weevils but I’m sure someone else does.

I don’t imagine the beans will get too hot under the fleece at this time of year (read this month’s update for more info on how Charles uses fleece). Thanks to him I’m using it more and more and I think it’s great. I will switch to mesh or netting in the summer if I want to protect anything as it will be too hot then to use fleece. I tried using some green coloured fleece to provide shade for some lambs lettuce seedlings one August and after 10 minutes the temperature had climbed up to 40 degrees and I had to take it off quick.

It’s interesting to hear about the difference between the previously well dug soil and the newly cultivated bits – just goes to show the damage done by digging.

Have great weekend,

Compostpope

[SuazMember]

Ah, is that what those nibbles are? Thanks for letting me know, I’ll look into it now.

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